I need an honest answer...

[Surveyor]

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

[Jason Bly]

I haven't experienced very many crashes with the system. Of course, every
upgrade will have a few glitches, but Carlson is very responsive on
supplying a fix if they can duplicate the problem (usually by the next day),
thanks Dave. I've also seen many improvements since I started using Survcadd
4 years ago. Several things I've suggested (I'm sure I wasn't the only one)
have been incorporated into the package. There are a few minor things that
EP did that I'd like to see in Survcadd, but overall the Carlson team has
listened to its users.

Honestly
Jason Bly

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

[Geoffrey Leiter]

As a former EP98,99,2000 user I can tell you that you will not be
disappointed. For starters XML runs inside AutoCAD like the old EP used to.
I left EP about 4 years ago and have had no regrets. While XML is not
perfect, it is stable and works as advertised.

Geoff


"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

[Terry Scanlon]

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

I have been using SurvCadd for about 5 yrs. Prior to that I was using

PacSoft's Civilmaster software for about 8 yrs. Personnally, I do mostly
design - grading, stormwater, roads, ...earthwork.

As far as stability, I would say it would highly depend on what one is
doing with the software. We have about 20 workstations in our office.
Users who create larger drawings (10mb+), have lots of layouts (20+),
or are doing more intense design (intense dtm manipulation and calcs)
are more likely to have more crashes.

I'd say our "lighter" users probably have a crash a week. I don't know
if that is SurvCadd influenced or just Autocadd. Intense users (myself)
probably have crashes every other day. Sometimes, I have many on a
bad day. I have a feel for when a drawing is at these limits, and I save
more often.

When I -have- found bugs, I usually email support, have a response the
same day, and have a fix within a few days. This is usually just a few
times within months of a new release. The updates have had significant
improvements, rather than BS to justify collecting $$ for an upgrade.
(I often feel this way with lots of other software, Autocad included).

As far as working "as advertised": I had to check the website to see
what they ARE advertising. After looking it over, I'd say it probably
works at least 98% as advertised. The thing I'm always running into is
all the stuff I didn't know about! There is another 100% of good stuff
they AREN'T advertising

I encourage you to give it a good workout on the 30 day trial. I have
seen other packages and doubt anyone comes close to the bang for the
buck of Survcadd.

Terry Scanlon

[Surveyor]

Terry, I am currently using Pacsoft 2000. As you probably know Pacsoft
was bought up and dropped by REI. I have not seen any software that has
the power of Pacsoft's road design, nor the great Cogo entry. However It
does not work very well with Autocad. The other users touched on what my
problems were with my other software.
I noticed that when watching the movies about deed entry they only
allowed for quadrants to be entered when entering a direction. Can you
specify a NW10.1216? Or a +130.1415 for angle right, -130.1415 for angle
left?
Why the grid mesh rather than a TIN or DTM? Does this cause any
troubles with having to specify a small grid size to maintain accuracy
as far as speed is concerned? 3 points better define an irregular shaped
surface than 4?
Can you work with TIN's - edit, plot, export?
What is the smallest size grid that you regularly use for topo's that
are accurate to +/-.25'
Lastly, can I use you as a resource for questions while I'm looking
at this software? You seem to know quite a bit about the software. My
E-Mail is jlipke@co.siskiyou.ca.us Thanks. JRL

[Surveyor]

I didn't realize that we were talking at two places at once. Sorry for
the duplication of questions/comments. JRL

Terry Scanlon wrote:

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL


I have been using SurvCadd for about 5 yrs. Prior to that I was using
PacSoft's Civilmaster software for about 8 yrs. Personnally, I do mostly
design - grading, stormwater, roads, ...earthwork.

As far as stability, I would say it would highly depend on what one is
doing with the software. We have about 20 workstations in our office.
Users who create larger drawings (10mb+), have lots of layouts (20+),
or are doing more intense design (intense dtm manipulation and calcs)
are more likely to have more crashes.

I'd say our "lighter" users probably have a crash a week. I don't know
if that is SurvCadd influenced or just Autocadd. Intense users (myself)
probably have crashes every other day. Sometimes, I have many on a
bad day. I have a feel for when a drawing is at these limits, and I save
more often.

When I -have- found bugs, I usually email support, have a response the
same day, and have a fix within a few days. This is usually just a few
times within months of a new release. The updates have had significant
improvements, rather than BS to justify collecting $$ for an upgrade.
(I often feel this way with lots of other software, Autocad included).

As far as working "as advertised": I had to check the website to see
what they ARE advertising. After looking it over, I'd say it probably
works at least 98% as advertised. The thing I'm always running into is
all the stuff I didn't know about! There is another 100% of good stuff
they AREN'T advertising

I encourage you to give it a good workout on the 30 day trial. I have
seen other packages and doubt anyone comes close to the bang for the
buck of Survcadd.

Terry Scanlon

[Terry Scanlon]

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E3AB41E.5050903@yifan.net...

Terry, I am currently using Pacsoft 2000. As you probably know Pacsoft
was bought up and dropped by REI. I have not seen any software that has
the power of Pacsoft's road design, nor the great Cogo entry. However It
does not work very well with Autocad. The other users touched on what my
problems were with my other software.

I didn't know there was a PacSoft 2000. I had been using PacSoft since
before
it was on a PC (HP9000 workstation). It WAS a great package. When
Karen owned the company, support was like Carlson (excellent) and updates
were exciting improvements. REI are civil software terrorists in my
opinion.

I noticed that when watching the movies about deed entry they only
allowed for quadrants to be entered when entering a direction. Can you
specify a NW10.1216? Or a +130.1415 for angle right, -130.1415 for angle
left?

I don't get to do much survey work anymore (used to at previous employer).
I do mostly design. Others may be able to better answer thse questions.

BUT, be sure to check out the EXTENDER command!!!! There is also TA
which is "locate point by turned angle".

Why the grid mesh rather than a TIN or DTM? Does this cause any
troubles with having to specify a small grid size to maintain accuracy
as far as speed is concerned? 3 points better define an irregular shaped
surface than 4?

I still mostly work with TINs. I imaging grids are easier to manipulate
programming wise. I have done extensive analysis of the grid vs. tin
routines in SurvCadd. One does need to make a small grid to insure
accuracy (5ft grid...3ft if its not to big of an area...because at some
point,
small grids over big areas slow the machine to a crawl.)

More important than the # of points defining the surface...its WHAT points
are defining the surface. The TIN is made up of actually data points.
Nothing less and nothing more. The grids are interpolotated.

Can you work with TIN's - edit, plot, export?

Yes....not like pacsoft...ask me for specifics. I DO have methods for
sending information to and from pacsoft, but have weened myself from
even doing this. The latest SurvCadd (XML) comes a long way toward
matching Pacsoft's 3d editing.

What is the smallest size grid that you regularly use for topo's that
are accurate to +/-.25'
Lastly, can I use you as a resource for questions while I'm looking
at this software? You seem to know quite a bit about the software. My
E-Mail is jlipke@co.siskiyou.ca.us Thanks. JRL

No problem. I am also willing to help out with transition (and any other
way) if you DO get the software.

Terry Scanlon

[Surveyor]

When you say that you still work mostly with TIN's do you mean with
other software? I did not see where you could cut a cross section from a
TIN in SurvCad XML.

Terry Scanlon wrote:

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E3AB41E.5050903@yifan.net...

Terry, I am currently using Pacsoft 2000. As you probably know Pacsoft
was bought up and dropped by REI. I have not seen any software that has
the power of Pacsoft's road design, nor the great Cogo entry. However It
does not work very well with Autocad. The other users touched on what my
problems were with my other software.


I didn't know there was a PacSoft 2000. I had been using PacSoft since
before
it was on a PC (HP9000 workstation). It WAS a great package. When
Karen owned the company, support was like Carlson (excellent) and updates
were exciting improvements. REI are civil software terrorists in my
opinion.


I noticed that when watching the movies about deed entry they only
allowed for quadrants to be entered when entering a direction. Can you
specify a NW10.1216? Or a +130.1415 for angle right, -130.1415 for angle
left?


I don't get to do much survey work anymore (used to at previous employer).
I do mostly design. Others may be able to better answer thse questions.

BUT, be sure to check out the EXTENDER command!!!! There is also TA
which is "locate point by turned angle".


Why the grid mesh rather than a TIN or DTM? Does this cause any
troubles with having to specify a small grid size to maintain accuracy
as far as speed is concerned? 3 points better define an irregular shaped
surface than 4?


I still mostly work with TINs. I imaging grids are easier to manipulate
programming wise. I have done extensive analysis of the grid vs. tin
routines in SurvCadd. One does need to make a small grid to insure
accuracy (5ft grid...3ft if its not to big of an area...because at some
point,
small grids over big areas slow the machine to a crawl.)

More important than the # of points defining the surface...its WHAT points
are defining the surface. The TIN is made up of actually data points.
Nothing less and nothing more. The grids are interpolotated.


Can you work with TIN's - edit, plot, export?


Yes....not like pacsoft...ask me for specifics. I DO have methods for
sending information to and from pacsoft, but have weened myself from
even doing this. The latest SurvCadd (XML) comes a long way toward
matching Pacsoft's 3d editing.


What is the smallest size grid that you regularly use for topo's that
are accurate to +/-.25'
Lastly, can I use you as a resource for questions while I'm looking
at this software? You seem to know quite a bit about the software. My
E-Mail is jlipke@co.siskiyou.ca.us Thanks. JRL



No problem. I am also willing to help out with transition (and any other
way) if you DO get the software.

Terry Scanlon

[R.K. McSwain]

You can make cross-sections from any collection of 3D entities. (Sections from Surface Entities, Sections from GRD or FLT).

To shed a little more light on the subject, SurvCADD is by far, the industry leader in software used at coal mining sites. Most underground surface modeling is done with grids, as is most large areas at surface mines. However, you can do just about anything with TINs in SurvCADD that you can do with Grids including volume calculation, TIN manipulation, and more.

If you have some specific concerns or questions about TINs vs. Grids, let me know and I will put you in touch with our programming staff for some clear answers.

Thanks
------------------
R.K. McSwain
Carlson Software
rmcswain@carlsonsw.com


"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message news:3E3ADECF.6000105@yifan.net...

When you say that you still work mostly with TIN's do you mean with
other software? I did not see where you could cut a cross section from a
TIN in SurvCad XML.

Terry Scanlon wrote:

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E3AB41E.5050903@yifan.net...

Terry, I am currently using Pacsoft 2000. As you probably know Pacsoft
was bought up and dropped by REI. I have not seen any software that has
the power of Pacsoft's road design, nor the great Cogo entry. However It
does not work very well with Autocad. The other users touched on what my
problems were with my other software.


I didn't know there was a PacSoft 2000. I had been using PacSoft since
before
it was on a PC (HP9000 workstation). It WAS a great package. When
Karen owned the company, support was like Carlson (excellent) and updates
were exciting improvements. REI are civil software terrorists in my
opinion.


I noticed that when watching the movies about deed entry they only
allowed for quadrants to be entered when entering a direction. Can you
specify a NW10.1216? Or a +130.1415 for angle right, -130.1415 for angle
left?


I don't get to do much survey work anymore (used to at previous employer).
I do mostly design. Others may be able to better answer thse questions.

BUT, be sure to check out the EXTENDER command!!!! There is also TA
which is "locate point by turned angle".


Why the grid mesh rather than a TIN or DTM? Does this cause any
troubles with having to specify a small grid size to maintain accuracy
as far as speed is concerned? 3 points better define an irregular shaped
surface than 4?


I still mostly work with TINs. I imaging grids are easier to manipulate
programming wise. I have done extensive analysis of the grid vs. tin
routines in SurvCadd. One does need to make a small grid to insure
accuracy (5ft grid...3ft if its not to big of an area...because at some
point,
small grids over big areas slow the machine to a crawl.)

More important than the # of points defining the surface...its WHAT points
are defining the surface. The TIN is made up of actually data points.
Nothing less and nothing more. The grids are interpolotated.


Can you work with TIN's - edit, plot, export?


Yes....not like pacsoft...ask me for specifics. I DO have methods for
sending information to and from pacsoft, but have weened myself from
even doing this. The latest SurvCadd (XML) comes a long way toward
matching Pacsoft's 3d editing.


What is the smallest size grid that you regularly use for topo's that
are accurate to +/-.25'
Lastly, can I use you as a resource for questions while I'm looking
at this software? You seem to know quite a bit about the software. My
E-Mail is jlipke@co.siskiyou.ca.us Thanks. JRL



No problem. I am also willing to help out with transition (and any other
way) if you DO get the software.

Terry Scanlon

[Terry Scanlon]

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E3ADECF.6000105@yifan.net...

When you say that you still work mostly with TIN's do you mean with
other software? I did not see where you could cut a cross section from a
TIN in SurvCad XML.

From the top menu in Section/Profile module:

Sections-> Sections From... -> Sections from Grid or FLT file

(flt file is a TIN file, I always save my TIN to a file which is just a
check box when using Triangulate and Contour)

As R.K. McSwain mentioned, one can section from many other things
as well...including any 3d screen element.

Terry Scanlon

[Surveyor]

Thank's, I will look at the software as soon as I get the trial copy. My
Dad ordered a trial version of Carlson Survey, It's been a week or two
and no sign of the CD. I wonder how long it usually takes? I can't wait
to take a crack at this software. Thanks, again JRL

Surveyor wrote:

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

[RMM]

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

I've been using SurvCad since 1995 and haven't seen it cause any crashes.
I've been using it on Windows NT4, 2000 Pro and now XP Pro. There have been
glitches, sure, but overall it's been a very stable software.

RMM

[RMM]

"Surveyor" <surveyor@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:3E39EAB2.5030706@yifan.net...

I am looking at SurvCad XML and I need an honest opinion about the
percent of options that work as advertized. I have experience with some
software (that I won't mention the name of, but I'm sure many of you
have switched from) that did not work as advertized. Dozens of patches
each year and yet everything still does not work. How many times a month
does SurvCad XML crash? How many times a month does Autocad crash
because of SurvCad? I am going to get a trial 30 Day CD and take a real
good look at this software. Anything has to be better than my past
ExPeriences...This board seems pretty slow. I guess that is a good sign?
Thanks, JRL

I've been using SurvCad since 1995 and haven't seen it cause any crashes.
I've been using it on Windows NT4, 2000 Pro and now XP Pro. There have been
glitches, sure, but overall it's been a very stable software.

RMM