Warning! Do not copy, move or rename coord file!

[JackG]

A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent $10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51 different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson, this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no way of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[Jason Bly]

When you move a drawing and all its data files, DO NOT move the INI file, in
fact I erase mine. We have our field crews download to a DOWNLOAD directory,
then the draftsmen move the file to a PROJECT directory when it is being
worked on, deleting the INI file before or just before working on the
drawing. Make sure in configure Survcadd - General settings that you check
"Put Data Files in DWG Directory" and "Save Drawing INI Files". When you go
to work with points it will ask you if you are using an existing or new CRD
file, of course hit existing and the next dialog box should bring you to the
same directory your drawing is in. You can also edit the INI files directly
using Wordpad or Notepad. I'm sure you could write some type of batch file
that will edit all INI files to correct a directory path in each, if you've
moved many drawing files to a new location.

"Come on, Carlson, this is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file
update" function"

Try the Set Coordinate File command under Points.

"I have no way of knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still
looking to the old file and old location, and which ones are new points that

were created and were saved in the new file".

Again, open the INI file with Wordpad if you need to know this information.
You should see something like this, possibly even more information:
crdfile=p:\project\id5045\id5045 1-30-2003 a.johnson.crd
PROJECT=P:\PROJECT\ID5045\ID5045 1-30-2003 A.JOHNSON.CRD

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[JackG]

I'm not talking about the ini file. The ini file has absolutely NOTHING to
do with this problem. This is "hidden data" attached to every coord point.
You CANNOT change this "hidden data" by creating a new ini file. If you
don't believe this, then you are in for the same rude awakening that I was.
There will be points in your file that are attached to the original crd file
and you don't know which ones they are. If you have run a "update coord file
from screen", Drawing Inspector will say incorrectly report the new coord
file name when you move across a point. If you don't believe this, perform a
"Move Pnt" on a point you know was created in a previous crd file, not the
one you copied to a different name and are now using, then do a "Find
Point". If you are using XML and you have copied, moved or renamed your
coord file, then added more points to it, you are in for a big shock.
JackG


"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2bfs8$psk$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

When you move a drawing and all its data files, DO NOT move the INI file,
in
fact I erase mine. We have our field crews download to a DOWNLOAD
directory,
then the draftsmen move the file to a PROJECT directory when it is being
worked on, deleting the INI file before or just before working on the
drawing. Make sure in configure Survcadd - General settings that you check
"Put Data Files in DWG Directory" and "Save Drawing INI Files". When you
go
to work with points it will ask you if you are using an existing or new
CRD
file, of course hit existing and the next dialog box should bring you to
the
same directory your drawing is in. You can also edit the INI files
directly
using Wordpad or Notepad. I'm sure you could write some type of batch file
that will edit all INI files to correct a directory path in each, if
you've
moved many drawing files to a new location.

"Come on, Carlson, this is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file
update" function"

Try the Set Coordinate File command under Points.

"I have no way of knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are
still
looking to the old file and old location, and which ones are new points
that
were created and were saved in the new file".

Again, open the INI file with Wordpad if you need to know this
information.
You should see something like this, possibly even more information:
crdfile=p:\project\id5045\id5045 1-30-2003 a.johnson.crd
PROJECT=P:\PROJECT\ID5045\ID5045 1-30-2003 A.JOHNSON.CRD

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created
a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE
EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every
point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me
to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a
coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no
way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created
and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[Terry Scanlon]

"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2djjl$8ia$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

I'm not talking about the ini file. The ini file has absolutely NOTHING to
do with this problem. This is "hidden data" attached to every coord point.
You CANNOT change this "hidden data" by creating a new ini file. If you
don't believe this, then you are in for the same rude awakening that I
was.
There will be points in your file that are attached to the original crd
file
and you don't know which ones they are. If you have run a "update coord
file
from screen", Drawing Inspector will say incorrectly report the new coord
file name when you move across a point. If you don't believe this, perform
a
"Move Pnt" on a point you know was created in a previous crd file, not the
one you copied to a different name and are now using, then do a "Find
Point". If you are using XML and you have copied, moved or renamed your
coord file, then added more points to it, you are in for a big shock.
JackG

This IS rather strange. I just played with this in my current drawing.

Drawing Inspector lists a coordinate file for each point. The coordinate
file listed resides on a server in our other office which is actually in
another state.

I updated a new coordinate from the drawing.

It is now that I notice that there are TWO blocks for each point. (actually
I've noticed this before but not payed much attention). One block is the
MARK, the other block contains only the Point No, Descriptor, and Elev
attributes.

Drawing Inspector lists the NEW coordinate file when one hovers the mouse
over the block containing the ATTRIBUTES.

Drawing Inspector lists the OLD coordinate file when one hovers the mouse
over the POINT MARK.

I don't know if this sheds light on the situation or confuses it.

Terry Scanlon

[R.K. McSwain]

Jack,

Since you decided to move our conversation into the public forum, I will respond here also. We are working on a command that will allow you to set the CRD file name associated with a selection of points. This routine should be ready and tested in a few days. I'm not sure how it will be distributed yet.

Just for clarification, this is not a programming error as you call it. Everything is working AS DESIGNED. Maybe it's not the best design, but it is not a mistake in the code.


Thanks for your input.

----------------------
Randall McSwain
Carlson Software



"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent $10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51 different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson, this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no way of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[JackG]

Sorry, Randy!

I know we have discussed this matter so this post is for others who might
not even be aware of the potential for disaster here. I did not mean for it
to sound condescending. Survcadd is the best AutoCAD software out there.
This issue is EXTREMELY important for everyone to understand, hence the
newsgroup, and it is my opinion that adding "hidden data (coord file
LOCATION)" is a programming mistake. If the .ini file would update this
"hidden data" automatically upon dwg boot, it would be O.K. But the .ini
file is POWERLESS over the "hidden data" attached to every coord point.
Perhaps I could understand coord file name (changeable by the aforementioned
..ini process, but PATH as well? This means you can NEVER EVER copy, move or
rename any directories or coord files. This is too great a limitation for
anyone - software is supposed to provide you with options, not restrict how
you work. There was NO warning that this would happen.

What is at stake - ALL OF OUR STAKE OUT DATA, hundreds of files, tens of
thousands of points. I don't have to tell you the problems that would follow
if our subdivisions were staked incorrectly. We would be closed down by all
the lawsuits. We are a Civil Engineering company that mainly creates new
residential subdivisions and a few commercial/industrial ones. When I first
bought Survcadd (Sc2000), this problem did not exist. I went about setting
up a "mode of operating" with the parameters established by Survcadd. This
meant I could process the field data in any old file name under any old
directory. Since you never know what the subdivision name is going to be, we
just use the project no. and the original property owner's name:

D:\02018-DraperProperty\draperpntno.crd

All of our Survcadd files start out this way. A boundary and topo are
created from the field data. When the subdivision gets a name, I change the
name of the directory (to maintain established file consistency already
created by others in our office) and the crd file name to the project no. &
the new subdivision name:

D:\02018-StonewoodSubdivision\StonePntno.crd

I am very careful to edit all the .ini files, to make sure all the file
pointers are now correct. I then calculate all the roads and lots and insert
all the engineer's storm and sewer objects when they are through with the
design. This system worked for several years until the "hidden data" a.k.a.
"exact data path of coord file" was added. There was no warning that would
change EVERYTHING THAT I DO AT WORK. Hundreds of files were created this way
until last week when I discovered this:

All of the points that I create from this point on will work properly in the
new coord file, however, a point that was created in the original crd file
(which either doesn't exist any more, or the directory path has changed)
which has been moved using the Survcadd MovePnt routine, does not update the
coord file automatically. If you ARE NOT EVEN AWARE this is happening, you
are in for some real trouble out in the field. Update the coord file from
the dwg you say -- Wrong! How would ever know that I had to? Besides this
DOES NOT ACTUALLY change the "hidden data" or the "crd file path and name".
Drawing inspector reports the new crd file name and path for that point but
it is wrong!! Using MovePnt on points created in the original crd file still
doesn't update the crd file automatically. Move the point and you will see
(via Find Point) that the real coord is still where it used to be. Enter the
word REVISIONS. Need I say more? What is worse, I may have renamed a
directory and files SEVERAL times and may actually have 3 or 4 coord files
in my dwg without my knowledge and if I have used the "update crd file from
dwg", there is no way for me to even find out if I do or not. Redrawing each
point - wheeew!! If you saw my drawings, and there are hundreds, you
wouldn't even suggest it. I cannot use FTF to redraw them, because I do not
use field codes to create points once the field data has been processed.
Redrawing each point in each dwg with 64 different layers and 52 different
symbols and hundreds of drawings would take several months.

THE GOOD NEWS - I have spoken with Survcadd about this and a fix is in the
works they say. I am hoping it would work something like this:

Turn on, unfreeze and unlock all layers to any dwg. Use a command like
"Update coordinate point link". Type "all" when it asks for a selection.
Type in your new coord file name. For god's sake I hope they remove the PATH
info altogether. Coord file name I can understand for people who choose to
work this way. PLEASE LET THE .INI FILE DO WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO!!!!

I'm sorry about the length of this post but it is critical for those who
have made the same mistake I have and don't even know it.

Thanks,
JackG

[Jason Bly]

I see what you are talking about, but "Update Coordinate File from Dwg"
seems to fix things for me. It reports the correct new path and "List
Points" lists the correct coordinate.

I do not like the fact that after I move a CRD file to a new directory and
try to move a point that it isn't recording the new coordinate file. Maybe
that explains some of the mistakes I've had happen in the field. I was
wondering why my point was in one spot, yet the CRD file says it's somewhere
else. I guess I should have inversed around my points before sending it to
the field, which most CAD operators should be doing anyhow. Autocad has
caused many surveyors/engineers to become lazy and what I refer to as "line
clickers" without really utilizing true COGO techniques. I'm guilty of it
myself, but I've learned that you can't always trust a drawing or any other
computer file, without making proper checks by inversing.

Anyway, fix the problem please.

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2djjl$8ia$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

I'm not talking about the ini file. The ini file has absolutely NOTHING to
do with this problem. This is "hidden data" attached to every coord point.
You CANNOT change this "hidden data" by creating a new ini file. If you
don't believe this, then you are in for the same rude awakening that I
was.
There will be points in your file that are attached to the original crd
file
and you don't know which ones they are. If you have run a "update coord
file
from screen", Drawing Inspector will say incorrectly report the new coord
file name when you move across a point. If you don't believe this, perform
a
"Move Pnt" on a point you know was created in a previous crd file, not the
one you copied to a different name and are now using, then do a "Find
Point". If you are using XML and you have copied, moved or renamed your
coord file, then added more points to it, you are in for a big shock.
JackG


"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2bfs8$psk$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
When you move a drawing and all its data files, DO NOT move the INI
file,
in
fact I erase mine. We have our field crews download to a DOWNLOAD
directory,
then the draftsmen move the file to a PROJECT directory when it is being
worked on, deleting the INI file before or just before working on the
drawing. Make sure in configure Survcadd - General settings that you
check
"Put Data Files in DWG Directory" and "Save Drawing INI Files". When you
go
to work with points it will ask you if you are using an existing or new
CRD
file, of course hit existing and the next dialog box should bring you to
the
same directory your drawing is in. You can also edit the INI files
directly
using Wordpad or Notepad. I'm sure you could write some type of batch
file
that will edit all INI files to correct a directory path in each, if
you've
moved many drawing files to a new location.

"Come on, Carlson, this is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file
update" function"

Try the Set Coordinate File command under Points.

"I have no way of knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are
still
looking to the old file and old location, and which ones are new points
that
were created and were saved in the new file".

Again, open the INI file with Wordpad if you need to know this
information.
You should see something like this, possibly even more information:
crdfile=p:\project\id5045\id5045 1-30-2003 a.johnson.crd
PROJECT=P:\PROJECT\ID5045\ID5045 1-30-2003 A.JOHNSON.CRD

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have
created
a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach
the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well.
What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE
EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed,
you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE
LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every
point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me
to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only
implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is
NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way
to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with
NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a
coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no
way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to
the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created
and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED
A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[JackG]

Jason,
Update coord file from dwg only SEEMS to work. If you actually have a point
in your file that was created in a previous coord file that is no longer
there (has been renamed for instance), you still cannot use the Survcadd
move point command "mpnt" to move that point. If you use "mpnt" on such a
point, then use the find point command "fpnt", you will see that the coord
did not move, the arrow still pointing to where it was, even though Drawing
Inspector will show the new coord file (incorrectly). If your point was
redrawn from the new coord file however, "mpnt" will work. I cannot use
update dwg from coord file because my files are too big and complicated and
you can only use 1 symbol at a time. I cannot "draw-locate" all my points
for the same reason. I cannot use FTF because my r-o-w, lot, cl, sewer,
water, etc. points do not use field codes.

They are coming up with a fix soon, I hear.
JackG



"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2g5gd$5si$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

I see what you are talking about, but "Update Coordinate File from Dwg"
seems to fix things for me. It reports the correct new path and "List
Points" lists the correct coordinate.

I do not like the fact that after I move a CRD file to a new directory and
try to move a point that it isn't recording the new coordinate file. Maybe
that explains some of the mistakes I've had happen in the field. I was
wondering why my point was in one spot, yet the CRD file says it's
somewhere
else. I guess I should have inversed around my points before sending it to
the field, which most CAD operators should be doing anyhow. Autocad has
caused many surveyors/engineers to become lazy and what I refer to as
"line
clickers" without really utilizing true COGO techniques. I'm guilty of it
myself, but I've learned that you can't always trust a drawing or any
other
computer file, without making proper checks by inversing.

Anyway, fix the problem please.

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2djjl$8ia$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
I'm not talking about the ini file. The ini file has absolutely NOTHING
to
do with this problem. This is "hidden data" attached to every coord
point.
You CANNOT change this "hidden data" by creating a new ini file. If you
don't believe this, then you are in for the same rude awakening that I
was.
There will be points in your file that are attached to the original crd
file
and you don't know which ones they are. If you have run a "update coord
file
from screen", Drawing Inspector will say incorrectly report the new
coord
file name when you move across a point. If you don't believe this,
perform
a
"Move Pnt" on a point you know was created in a previous crd file, not
the
one you copied to a different name and are now using, then do a "Find
Point". If you are using XML and you have copied, moved or renamed your
coord file, then added more points to it, you are in for a big shock.
JackG


"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2bfs8$psk$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
When you move a drawing and all its data files, DO NOT move the INI
file,
in
fact I erase mine. We have our field crews download to a DOWNLOAD
directory,
then the draftsmen move the file to a PROJECT directory when it is
being
worked on, deleting the INI file before or just before working on the
drawing. Make sure in configure Survcadd - General settings that you
check
"Put Data Files in DWG Directory" and "Save Drawing INI Files". When
you
go
to work with points it will ask you if you are using an existing or
new
CRD
file, of course hit existing and the next dialog box should bring you
to
the
same directory your drawing is in. You can also edit the INI files
directly
using Wordpad or Notepad. I'm sure you could write some type of batch
file
that will edit all INI files to correct a directory path in each, if
you've
moved many drawing files to a new location.

"Come on, Carlson, this is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file
update" function"

Try the Set Coordinate File command under Points.

"I have no way of knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are
still
looking to the old file and old location, and which ones are new
points
that
were created and were saved in the new file".

Again, open the INI file with Wordpad if you need to know this
information.
You should see something like this, possibly even more information:
crdfile=p:\project\id5045\id5045 1-30-2003 a.johnson.crd
PROJECT=P:\PROJECT\ID5045\ID5045 1-30-2003 A.JOHNSON.CRD

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have
created
a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach
the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well.
What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD
FILE
EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed,
you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE
LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every
point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying
me
to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only
implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is
NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER
BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a
way
to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on,
Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with
NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a
coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have
no
way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to
the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were
created
and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the
new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY
NEED
A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[Jason Bly]

I'm using XML and Update Coord File worked and Find Point showed it where I
moved it. The steps I did to test this bug:

Open new drawing
Set new coordinate file
Locate a point at 5000,5000
Exited drawing
Moved drawing and CRD file to another temp directory
Opened drawing in the other temp directory
Moved Point to 5100,5100 (Drawing Inspector shows right coordinate, but
wrong file location. List points and Find point still at 5000,5000)
Update CRD file from drawing (Drawing Inspector, List points and Find point
all show point at 5100,5100)
Everything looks fine to me.

Maybe it's one of those weird glitches that doesn't work on some machines,
but works on others. We have one machine in our office that won't contour,
but everyone else's does. That particular computer did contour before we had
to reformat the hard drive and reinstall all our software, now that's weird.

Jason

"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2h3go$nto$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Jason,
Update coord file from dwg only SEEMS to work. If you actually have a
point
in your file that was created in a previous coord file that is no longer
there (has been renamed for instance), you still cannot use the Survcadd
move point command "mpnt" to move that point. If you use "mpnt" on such a
point, then use the find point command "fpnt", you will see that the coord
did not move, the arrow still pointing to where it was, even though
Drawing
Inspector will show the new coord file (incorrectly). If your point was
redrawn from the new coord file however, "mpnt" will work. I cannot use
update dwg from coord file because my files are too big and complicated
and
you can only use 1 symbol at a time. I cannot "draw-locate" all my points
for the same reason. I cannot use FTF because my r-o-w, lot, cl, sewer,
water, etc. points do not use field codes.

They are coming up with a fix soon, I hear.
JackG



"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2g5gd$5si$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
I see what you are talking about, but "Update Coordinate File from Dwg"
seems to fix things for me. It reports the correct new path and "List
Points" lists the correct coordinate.

I do not like the fact that after I move a CRD file to a new directory
and
try to move a point that it isn't recording the new coordinate file.
Maybe
that explains some of the mistakes I've had happen in the field. I was
wondering why my point was in one spot, yet the CRD file says it's
somewhere
else. I guess I should have inversed around my points before sending it
to
the field, which most CAD operators should be doing anyhow. Autocad has
caused many surveyors/engineers to become lazy and what I refer to as
"line
clickers" without really utilizing true COGO techniques. I'm guilty of
it
myself, but I've learned that you can't always trust a drawing or any
other
computer file, without making proper checks by inversing.

Anyway, fix the problem please.

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2djjl$8ia$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
I'm not talking about the ini file. The ini file has absolutely
NOTHING
to
do with this problem. This is "hidden data" attached to every coord
point.
You CANNOT change this "hidden data" by creating a new ini file. If
you
don't believe this, then you are in for the same rude awakening that I
was.
There will be points in your file that are attached to the original
crd
file
and you don't know which ones they are. If you have run a "update
coord
file
from screen", Drawing Inspector will say incorrectly report the new
coord
file name when you move across a point. If you don't believe this,
perform
a
"Move Pnt" on a point you know was created in a previous crd file, not
the
one you copied to a different name and are now using, then do a "Find
Point". If you are using XML and you have copied, moved or renamed
your
coord file, then added more points to it, you are in for a big shock.
JackG


"Jason Bly" <jbly@marshandlegge.com> wrote in message
news:b2bfs8$psk$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
When you move a drawing and all its data files, DO NOT move the INI
file,
in
fact I erase mine. We have our field crews download to a DOWNLOAD
directory,
then the draftsmen move the file to a PROJECT directory when it is
being
worked on, deleting the INI file before or just before working on
the
drawing. Make sure in configure Survcadd - General settings that you
check
"Put Data Files in DWG Directory" and "Save Drawing INI Files". When
you
go
to work with points it will ask you if you are using an existing or
new
CRD
file, of course hit existing and the next dialog box should bring
you
to
the
same directory your drawing is in. You can also edit the INI files
directly
using Wordpad or Notepad. I'm sure you could write some type of
batch
file
that will edit all INI files to correct a directory path in each, if
you've
moved many drawing files to a new location.

"Come on, Carlson, this is not to much to ask - give us a "coord
file
update" function"

Try the Set Coordinate File command under Points.

"I have no way of knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points
are
still
looking to the old file and old location, and which ones are new
points
that
were created and were saved in the new file".

Again, open the INI file with Wordpad if you need to know this
information.
You should see something like this, possibly even more information:
crdfile=p:\project\id5045\id5045 1-30-2003 a.johnson.crd
PROJECT=P:\PROJECT\ID5045\ID5045 1-30-2003 A.JOHNSON.CRD

Jason


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have
created
a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they
are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it
attach
the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well.
What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD
FILE
EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made
on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just
spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been
installed,
you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE
LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw
every
point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be
paying
me
to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only
implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files
is
NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER
BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a
way
to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on,
Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function.
This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner
with
NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that
a
coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have
no
way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking
to
the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were
created
and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the
new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY
NEED
A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[Daniel Capps]

Randall,

Any word yet about when this file/point association command while be
available? Since this feature was brought to my attention, I have had to
change the way I set up projects and share files with co-workers and it is
starting to stifle my artistic creativity.

Thanks,

Dan Capps


"R.K. McSwain" <rmcswain@carlsonsw.com> wrote in message
news:b2ek6a$qnu$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Jack,

Since you decided to move our conversation into the public forum, I will
respond here also. We are working on a command that will allow you to set
the CRD file name associated with a selection of points. This routine should
be ready and tested in a few days. I'm not sure how it will be distributed
yet.

Just for clarification, this is not a programming error as you call it.
Everything is working AS DESIGNED. Maybe it's not the best design, but it is
not a mistake in the code.


Thanks for your input.

----------------------
Randall McSwain
Carlson Software



"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[John Dickson]

Jack,

Thanks for the warning. This explains a few problems I have been running
into lately. And Randall, Jack is right, SurvCADD is the best software and
all users should be made aware of issues like this.

John Dickson

"Daniel Capps" <danc@mccullers-capps.com> wrote in message
news:b303jm$6fa$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Randall,

Any word yet about when this file/point association command while be
available? Since this feature was brought to my attention, I have had to
change the way I set up projects and share files with co-workers and it is
starting to stifle my artistic creativity.

Thanks,

Dan Capps


"R.K. McSwain" <rmcswain@carlsonsw.com> wrote in message
news:b2ek6a$qnu$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Jack,

Since you decided to move our conversation into the public forum, I
will
respond here also. We are working on a command that will allow you to set
the CRD file name associated with a selection of points. This routine
should
be ready and tested in a few days. I'm not sure how it will be distributed
yet.

Just for clarification, this is not a programming error as you call it.
Everything is working AS DESIGNED. Maybe it's not the best design, but it
is
not a mistake in the code.


Thanks for your input.

----------------------
Randall McSwain
Carlson Software



"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2b5r8$mno$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
A recent discovery of an absurd programming error. Once you have created
a
file and "Set Coordinate File", Survcadd NOW attaches what they are
calling
"hidden data" to each coord point you store. Not only does it attach the
coord file name, but the ENTIRE COORD FILE DIRECTORY PATH as well. What
this
means is that you can NEVER EVER MOVE, COPY OR RENAME THAT COORD FILE
EVER
AGAIN. If you do, your dwg file will not update any changes made on
screen,
such as the "Move Pnt" routine. Even if your company has just spent
$10,000
on a brand new computer network and a new server has been installed, you
CANNOT MOVE YOUR FILES TO IT OR THE PATH TO THE COORD FILE WILL BE LOST
FOREVER. A Carlson support technician suggested that I redraw every
point
number in the new file that I have copied. I hope he will be paying me
to
change over 500 files with well over 1000 points in each, with 51
different
symbols and 61 different layers. This "hidden data" was only implemented
in
CES and XML, not in 2000, so they tell me. Redrawing all my files is NOT
AN
OPTION. If you are going to program something as absurd as NEVER BEING
ABLE
TO MOVE, COPY OR RENAME ANY COORD FILE, then you better provide a way to
change all the coords on screen to a new coord file. Come on, Carlson,
this
is not to much to ask - give us a "coord file update" function. This
absurd
programming blunder has really painted my company into a corner with NO
WAY
OUT. To make matters worse, the error message that tells you that a
coord
file link cannot be established has been eliminated in XML. I have no
way
of
knowing, in ANY of my dwgs, which coord points are still looking to the
old
file and old location, and which ones are new points that were created
and
were saved in the new file. As far as I knew, they were ALL in the new
file.
I am not looking for any defensive remarks from Carlson, I REALLY NEED A
FIX
FOR THIS MAJOR PROBLEM.

JackG

[Dave C.]

Just a quick question Jack, How do are you working with hundreds of files
and tens of thousands of points? I must be missing something here, but I
can't even work with a file that has ten thousand points, unless I
completely avoid numerous commands, like "draw all" especially with the
"erase duplicates" option checked (when exactly do you want duplicates?) My
2GHZ Pentium 4 with a gig of ram is brought to it's knees with some of these
commands, and as an added bonus, I can't use Outlook while the process is
running! G... I would have time to email my kids, while waiting for my
points to come in. If I have used the "resize point attributes" command, it
won't erase the duplicates anyway, now I just have smaller and larger points
at the same location. How do you organize your projects? A separate folder
for each drawing with all the support files, crd, alignment ect in the same
folder. I've had to break apart numerous coordinate files just to be able
to work with them in XML, it is not fun. In the six months we've been using
SurvCad, we've got coordinate files scattered everywhere. I need some help
here trying to figure out how to organize this and get all my users on the
same page. We have always been used to having one main coordinate file
database for all drawing associated with that project. As field work was
processed the points were always brought into the main coordinate file,
actually we didn't have a choice that's just how it worked. (softdesk) Now
I have users working with a small coordinate file of just that days work,
but It's not being updated to a "project" coordinate file. I think this
problem with moving the CRD file to a different directory may be adding to
some of our problems. After field work has been processed it was moved to
the "processed" folder under our "survey" directory. As you can tell, I'm
struggling with this, and would like to hear from you or anyone that is
successfully managing large projects with SurvCADD. I have about fifteen
ongoing projects with over 50,000 points plus, and hundreds of drawing files
for each project. How can I make this workable?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave C.


"JackG" <jackg@sec-civil.com> wrote in message
news:b2etgq$sma$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Sorry, Randy!

I know we have discussed this matter so this post is for others who might
not even be aware of the potential for disaster here. I did not mean for
it
to sound condescending. Survcadd is the best AutoCAD software out there.
This issue is EXTREMELY important for everyone to understand, hence the
newsgroup, and it is my opinion that adding "hidden data (coord file
LOCATION)" is a programming mistake. If the .ini file would update this
"hidden data" automatically upon dwg boot, it would be O.K. But the .ini
file is POWERLESS over the "hidden data" attached to every coord point.
Perhaps I could understand coord file name (changeable by the
aforementioned
.ini process, but PATH as well? This means you can NEVER EVER copy, move
or
rename any directories or coord files. This is too great a limitation for
anyone - software is supposed to provide you with options, not restrict
how
you work. There was NO warning that this would happen.

What is at stake - ALL OF OUR STAKE OUT DATA, hundreds of files, tens of
thousands of points. I don't have to tell you the problems that would
follow
if our subdivisions were staked incorrectly. We would be closed down by
all
the lawsuits. We are a Civil Engineering company that mainly creates new
residential subdivisions and a few commercial/industrial ones. When I
first
bought Survcadd (Sc2000), this problem did not exist. I went about setting
up a "mode of operating" with the parameters established by Survcadd. This
meant I could process the field data in any old file name under any old
directory. Since you never know what the subdivision name is going to be,
we
just use the project no. and the original property owner's name:

D:\02018-DraperProperty\draperpntno.crd

All of our Survcadd files start out this way. A boundary and topo are
created from the field data. When the subdivision gets a name, I change
the
name of the directory (to maintain established file consistency already
created by others in our office) and the crd file name to the project no.
&
the new subdivision name:

D:\02018-StonewoodSubdivision\StonePntno.crd

I am very careful to edit all the .ini files, to make sure all the file
pointers are now correct. I then calculate all the roads and lots and
insert
all the engineer's storm and sewer objects when they are through with the
design. This system worked for several years until the "hidden data"
a.k.a.
"exact data path of coord file" was added. There was no warning that would
change EVERYTHING THAT I DO AT WORK. Hundreds of files were created this
way
until last week when I discovered this:

All of the points that I create from this point on will work properly in
the
new coord file, however, a point that was created in the original crd file
(which either doesn't exist any more, or the directory path has changed)
which has been moved using the Survcadd MovePnt routine, does not update
the
coord file automatically. If you ARE NOT EVEN AWARE this is happening, you
are in for some real trouble out in the field. Update the coord file from
the dwg you say -- Wrong! How would ever know that I had to? Besides this
DOES NOT ACTUALLY change the "hidden data" or the "crd file path and
name".
Drawing inspector reports the new crd file name and path for that point
but
it is wrong!! Using MovePnt on points created in the original crd file
still
doesn't update the crd file automatically. Move the point and you will see
(via Find Point) that the real coord is still where it used to be. Enter
the
word REVISIONS. Need I say more? What is worse, I may have renamed a
directory and files SEVERAL times and may actually have 3 or 4 coord files
in my dwg without my knowledge and if I have used the "update crd file
from
dwg", there is no way for me to even find out if I do or not. Redrawing
each
point - wheeew!! If you saw my drawings, and there are hundreds, you
wouldn't even suggest it. I cannot use FTF to redraw them, because I do
not
use field codes to create points once the field data has been processed.
Redrawing each point in each dwg with 64 different layers and 52 different
symbols and hundreds of drawings would take several months.

THE GOOD NEWS - I have spoken with Survcadd about this and a fix is in the
works they say. I am hoping it would work something like this:

Turn on, unfreeze and unlock all layers to any dwg. Use a command like
"Update coordinate point link". Type "all" when it asks for a selection.
Type in your new coord file name. For god's sake I hope they remove the
PATH
info altogether. Coord file name I can understand for people who choose to
work this way. PLEASE LET THE .INI FILE DO WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO!!!!

I'm sorry about the length of this post but it is critical for those who
have made the same mistake I have and don't even know it.

Thanks,
JackG