Carlson w/ AC CV3d (FF blow out afer revising)

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Carlson w/ AC CV3d (FF blow out afer revising)

Postby Jpace » Thu May 06, 2021 2:56 pm

Hello Carlson forum, thanks for allowing me to join this wonderful group.

We use Field to finish for our survey crews here and I have an issue with the linework every now and then that may be unique to my machine as I don’t really see any forums complaining about the issue and likewise, no other drafter using the same software where I work seem to have this issue happen to them. The software I use is Carlson 2020 with the embedded Autocad civil 3d used as a foundation.

So I normally receive a project with a set coordinate file that contains non conflicting ranged point groups from each field crew that I run as the project progresses to keep up with daily survey linework updates when they come in. That said, there will be older point groups that I have already addressed and revised for the linework that I of course do not want ran again.

The problem I have every now and then, mainly on larger projects with over 1000 points is what I call a Field to finish blow out. What happens is that areas I have already revised and edited from a field to finish run the day before, will tangle up and revert back to some hybrid version of the old field to finish order that I have since revised and joined and edited for any crossings or line tangles/overlaps. What was once a uniform set of linework revised from the initial field to finish runs, will revert back the next morning upon opening the project where I have to either re-revise linework yet again, or open up a backup or autosave drawing in order to replace the now tangled linework.

I have two examples of the line work tangling or blow out, as I call it, where I already revised the line work by either joining a re-drawn portion to where I cut or ‘break’ the tangled portion and ‘join’ it to a newly drawn ‘3dp’ line from the side shot data, or I untangle it manually by moving the nodes to then ‘add node’ to sideshots between the beginning and end points of the 3d polyline I am revising.

In the examples below, you will see this blow out effect happen to gutter lines, edge of pavement, a building line, and some concrete linework. Linework that comes from banks, streams, and ditches normally doesn’t blow out like this because I do little editing for those with exception to revising a few nodes by stretching or adding to clear out any line crossing between top and bottom of bank features. Essentially the blow out effect happens usually to 3d lines I have revised by joining to newly drawn linework or lines where I added nodes in between the begin and end point I describe above.

My settings are standard to what my company has set up for each computer, and it all works well except every now and then, usually on large topos with over a thousand points, will show me this blow out effect that cannot be repaired unless I do so manually or replace it with an older archived drawing. Strangely, even with copy and basepoint line work replacements, I have still seen this effect take place, as it seems the memory or link attached to them, somehow adopts them given that they are identical before the blow out takes place. One thing that may be relevant in my general settings, is that I have the linking linework to points checked off, and I wonder if that has something to do with all this.

If anyone has ever dealt with this strange effect from already revised and refined linework from field to finish runs, please let me know what the cause may be and likewise, if there is a solution to this issue. I am attaching a screen shot of the progression where I show the already revised linework on the left, from an initial field to finish run, and then how it looked when I opened it this morning on the right hand side.

Thank you and I hope you all have a great day.

Jerry Pace, Georgia, USA, Survey Drafter/LSIT
Jpace
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 1:31 pm
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: Carlson w/ AC CV3d (FF blow out afer revising)

Postby gskelhorn » Sat May 08, 2021 12:16 pm

I regularly use F2F throughout a project using point groups to add new points and linework incrementally. I run with the IntelliCAD engine so not the same setup. Note, I do not see the images attached to your message.

I don't think I have ever experienced an event where there was a change to a drawing automatically upon opening though I am a small company and we don't often walk over each other on projects.

My initial thought as I read the post was perhaps the "link" options might be a cause but you said link lines to points is off. I keep all the "link" options off since I have found them to cause me more grief than help me.

I seems to recall there were some changes in the 2020 version to introduce linking between points, breaklines and surface. Thought it was a Civil feature but might be in Survey. Here is the portion from the release notes:
With improved entity linking, points and breaklines automatically update the TIN when modified manually or from Field to Finish


When the issue is encountered:
  • Does it repeat if you close without saving and re-open?
  • Does it repeat if you close without saving and re-open on a different system or same system but different user profile?
  • Are there any commands configured to run automatically on startup or file open in your software setup?
  • Have you been able to confirm the file you are opening has not been opened and saved by someone else since you last modified it?

I would try to use the CAD LOGFILE... settings and try the Carlson "Generate Report Log" and "Generate Drawing Save Log" options to see if anything helpful is noticed.

Get as complete a scenario report as possible and send it in to Carlson Support. I've found them very helpful. One of the best support team I've encountered.

If you find the cause and/or solution it may be helpful to others if you add to this post.
gskelhorn
 
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Re: Carlson w/ AC CV3d (FF blow out afer revising)

Postby Jpace » Mon May 10, 2021 1:07 pm

Thanks for the help and advise.

Does it repeat if you close without saving and re-open?
If I open that drawing the next morning, after saving it the night before, the blow out of revised FF linework will still show up as it happened sometime between active sessions. I did not realize this before but it seems the blown out line work is indeed taking place between the save and the next opening. That said, I can only go back to a prior autosave before that last save, in order to get rid of that effect. This does not happen in real time with one exception, 3d orbit. The only time I have noticed the blowout take place during an active sessions is after leaving 3d orbit and resetting my View. This does not happen every time but one job in particular I remember this happening to surface breaklines that I was checking for spikes and dips, and when I returned to my normal top view, some of the linework for top of banks became tangled or regressed back to its' original FF location prior to any editing.

Does it repeat if you close without saving and re-open on a different system or same system but different user profile? I have only tried this a few times but the results are the same when another computer opens the same drawing that has the blown out line work, from a saved drawing that was revised and not blown out the night before.

Are there any commands configured to run automatically on startup or file open in your software setup? I am not sure. I will have to ask my drafting manager and see what he can see from my start up or general Carlson settings. I run a fairly simple work space, and do not have an active ribbon running because it slows down the system too much and glitches. I have my Carlson embedded devoid of mostly all of the Autocad Civil 3d tool bars or profiles and in its' simplicity, it runs pretty quick and does not stutter much at all.

Have you been able to confirm the file you are opening has not been opened and saved by someone else since you last modified it?
I have been able to confirm this, and strangely, I seem to be the only machine at my company that has this issue out of the 4 or more Carlson users we have.

I think checking out the LOG file like you mention is a good step to finding out what is happening. I have not contacted Carlson Support like you mention, but I do know them to be very good with customers and issues like this so perhaps it is a good time to present the case to them. This issue happens here and there, and I think it is pretty much for large projects with long strung polylines and big coordinate files with sideshot ranges well into the 100,000's for available use. I don't believe the points pack database issue from the past, is an issue now, but I am not sure about that.

I will keep this post updated as I move forward. The issue has not happened again since I unchecked the point linking. I did not realize that the other users where I work also do not have that setting checked so that is one thing that separates my machine from the rest.

Thanks again for the help and I hope you have a great Monday.

Ps: This site did not seem to like the photos I uploaded. I will try it again with the images re-sized to see if that will make them go though and get posted.

Jerry Pace
Jpace
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 1:31 pm
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: Carlson w/ AC CV3d (FF blow out afer revising)

Postby Jpace » Mon May 10, 2021 1:25 pm

CarlonBlowoutExThumb1.png




CarlonBlowoutExThumb2.png
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Jpace
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 1:31 pm
Location: Georgia, USA


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